Obama won't say it, so I will

[theoldwolf]

Islam is great. If you enjoy being a Muslim.

But what if you're a "Jack-Muslim", as it were... and enjoy a little Courvoisier after dinner? What if you're Muslim, and a woman - and want to wear the latest Yves St. Laurent number instead of hijab? Or what if you're Muslim, and gay at the same time? Or what if you're Muslim, and decide you'd rather be a Baha'i?

In Iran, or Afghanistan, or Saudi Arabia, or any number of Islamic countries, the above "crimes" can get you beaten, jailed, raped or executed.

And that's just wrong; religion should encourage people to improve their lives, not ruin their lives if they don't.

A good man I know once said, "Religion is designed to make you a better person. If you're still a jerk, it's not working."

I support the right of the people of Iran to elect an Islamic government if they so choose, but any government that fails to respect the inalienable rights of the governed to determine their own destiny will not last.

If we ever want to build a world that works for everyone, we as humans are going to have to get a whole lot smarter about what's important - having power over others, or having power over ourselves.

Comments

[dhlawrence.livejournal.com]

A National Geographic article I read about a year ago said that a lot of Iranians see the government as outsiders and foreigners--which is true to an extent. Before Islam, the dominant religion in what's now Iran was Zoroastrianism. Outsiders entered Iran and started imposing changes over the years, making it what it is now. Even the deposed Shah of Iran was descended from residents of what's now Azerbaijan.

[secoh.livejournal.com]

yeah, problem for them is they were Persians, then taken over by Arabs and their Islam. While they have democracy of sorts, the Mullahs control who can run for office, and a lot of other influence.

I think the main problem is the combination of curch and state. You can't have rational based democracy when theology is the main component.

[ccdesan.livejournal.com]

Spot on. And Islam wouldn't be much of an issue if it weren't for Saudi Arabia and thier Wahabi loons...

[secoh.livejournal.com]

and Saudi and their Wahabi loons wouldn't be such a big deal if they weren't propped up financially from so many oil companies falling over themselves to deal with them....

The sooner we go electric the better

Islam itself is no more millitant and bent than Christianity (incidentally, also a middle eastern religion) all the crazy opressive customs are just customs with (broadly speaking) nothing to do with the Koran. At least, so I have read. I have read the Bible but am yet to find an English copy of the Koran to read.

[ccdesan.livejournal.com]

> am yet to find an English copy of the Koran to read.

You can have this one (http://home.comcast.net/~ccdesan/QURAN.txt) - it's been marked up for an old indexing program called WordCruncher (dos-based, it still works) but that doesn't make it too difficult to read.

> Islam itself is no more militant and bent than Christianity
While it's true that many abominations and atrocities have been committed, and wars waged, in the name of both religions, if you get down to the brass tacks of the actual doctrines, Islam is much more violent and less tolerant than Christianity. Strip away all the hype and focus on what Deity is asking humanity to do, and how to live, and you find that all the oppressive, inhuman doctrines advocated by the Taliban and their ilk are based in a strict reading of the Qur'an. It's almost as if the Bible consisted of the Old Testament only, which is mostly war, incest, idolatry, and whoredom. Once you filter out the xenophobic tint, http://www.thereligionofpeace.com gives a lot of good information about what Islam really is.

[ccdesan.livejournal.com]

> The sooner we go electric the better

And pardon me, Son, I forgot to say "Amen".

[secoh.livejournal.com]

thanks for that!
fair enough! seems to me, if you take either works in part they sound wonderful but either in their entirety is quite scary. trick is to know which bits!

[ccdesan.livejournal.com]

I have some good friends in Sweden (http://www.krafto.se/index2.php?option=displaypage&main=76&subid=76&show=82) who are busy making a big difference in that area.

I wish they'd come over to my side of the pond...

[secoh.livejournal.com]

There are noises about similar projects here too. There are drawbacks but any is better than none.

IMHO even if the water isn't getting warmer and the warm water fanatics are wrong - it doesn't mean we should keep pissing in the pool.

[deckardcanine.livejournal.com]

Might I point out that Muhammad was a military leader whose idea of defense involved making an empire by force. The closest Jesus got was the scourging of the Temple, in which apparently nobody died.

[secoh.livejournal.com]

sure, though last I checked Jesus wasn't the only one in the bible....

I'm not standing up for either, just trying to be objective...

[alaskawolf.livejournal.com]

its a shame to see whats going on in Iran :(

[r-caton.livejournal.com]

The buggers have arrested British Embassy staff.

Allah only knows what the hell we are capable of doing there... but it sounds better to blame the Brits (since the US is absent) than admit that the opposition and hatred for the ruling classes is home grown.

[ccdesan.livejournal.com]

Anything to keep the people distracted from the real issues...

[secoh.livejournal.com]

i think they just let them go which is a relief!