You will Worship, and You will Like It!

[theoldwolf]

Tea Party activist is trying to get a ballot initiative on the books in California that will force schools to play Christmas music.

Under the "Freedom to Present Christmas Music in Public School Classrooms or Assemblies" initiative. The move would require schools to play traditional [read: religious] Christmas carols for students with the penalty for not doing so being legal action.

I adopted Mogg and came up with "hqiz" to help keep me from blaspheming, but this sort of social horsehockey brings me right up to the edge of the Cliffs of Insanity...

Holy [obscenity][vulgarity]. I don't care if the movement is taken seriously or not... the simple fact that anyone would have the solid osmium cojones to propose such a thing puts my brain into turks' head knots.

Gah!

Comments

[fearciuil.livejournal.com]

...?!?

Whut? These people have never heard of the First Amendment?

[ccdesan.livejournal.com]

Again, even knowing that this proposal doesn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell, the sheer gall of the proponents rocks me to the very core. I remember once when I was living in Washington state, I was introduced to a state senator who excitedly labeled me as belonging to the Moral Majority (a position she supported.) I told her that I had no desire to be associated with "that lunatic fringe group"... the response was as if I had slapped her and poured cow manure on her dress. How minds like this work is beyond my comprehension.

[r-caton.livejournal.com]

I know someone who squelched an leafleteer in the street with
I'm too busy BEING a Socialist Worker to bother with the SWP

[r-caton.livejournal.com]

Or the Jehovahs Witnesses?

[stiobhan.livejournal.com]

It's just good old-fashioned intolerance and extremism. Seems like all the kewl kids are into it these days.

But framing compulsory worship as "freedom" is a nice added touch.

[ccdesan.livejournal.com]

[stevenroy.livejournal.com]

Well, as long as no one votes for that, democracy works...

Failing that, we can just shoot everyone who votes for that, and then be secure in the knowledge that democracy will probably work better the next time. (Unless we ever have to do this a second time, in which case we're kinda defeating the purpose of democracy!)

Seriously though, folks... (And really, I hope no one takes that shooting-people suggestion seriously; anyone who does should be shot!)

The thing about Christmas music is that it can be put into three distinct categories: "Christian Christmas" carols (the ones about Jesus and the Nativity), "secular Christmas" carols (the ones about Santa, Frosty, various reindeers), and seasonal carols (the ones that are about Winter and not Christmas at all). As long as the Christmas music performed in schools is limited to the latter two categories, there isn't really a problem - although they still shouldn't be forced to do that.

Maybe someone else should try to put an initiative on the ballot favoring criminal punishments for people trying to put frivolous initiatives on ballots. Something as blatantly activist as that Christmas thing should be a misdemeanor at the very least, the kind with hefty fines and community service and a week or two of probation.

[ccdesan.livejournal.com]

I just edited the entry to clarify a point which was missing - this particular lady is trying to force the inclusion of the religious carols. A quote from Merry Hyatt, the teacher who is behind this insanity, is: "I think if we want God and Jesus to help us with our schools we need to include them rather than kick them out..."

So this would be in line with an attempt to re-introduce Christian prayers in school through the back door...

[canisrufus-uk.livejournal.com]

ok.......

Well, put simply.

Should schools (or anyone) be free to play Christmas music if they want to? Yes.

Should schools (or anyone) be legally required to play Christmas music if, for any reason, they don't want to? No.

Should whoever came up with this lunacy be locked, alone in a room for several weeks with a constant, unending loop of "Jingle bells" until they never want to hear another Christmas song? **** yes!

[dhlawrence.livejournal.com]

Nah, "Jingle Bells" is too merciful. "Jingle Dogs" would be more appropriate.

Unfortunately, extremists are an occupational hazard, no matter which side you're on.

[deckardcanine.livejournal.com]

"Jingle Cats" is more annoying. And I say this as a cat person.

[ccdesan.livejournal.com]

Totally divorced from anything you just said (which was good), your avatar just caused a mess at my desk...

[deckardcanine.livejournal.com]

I suspect that this is deliberately extreme in an effort to counteract those who would prevent schools from being allowed to play Christmas music. But I don't like the method.

[fearciuil.livejournal.com]

The Supreme Court has already ruled that schools may use religious music, as long as they're not using it to proslethyze. I can't quote you the case (it's not Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U.S. 602 (1971), though that's one that is used in any such challenge; there is at least one case that's directly on point). Whatever it is is pretty much the salvation of school music programs, because without it, we wouldn't be able to teach a significant percentage of anything pre-Beethoven.

[r-caton.livejournal.com]

And of course, whatever they play must be royalty free.....
since I've never known a teacher ever hold back from bootlegging.....

[fearciuil.livejournal.com]

I know plenty. Casting aspersions is the best you can offer?

[ccdesan.livejournal.com]

Things may be diff'rent over in the UK... I'm sure it wasn't meant as a slight.

[r-caton.livejournal.com]

Yes. Sorry. I've been asked to provide material (fortunately most of my record collection went out of copyright years ago) and asked to copy copies, some of which were on tapes so cheap and nasty I wouldn't let them near a tape head. This was years ago, though, before the web covered the globe and before material could so easily be obtained though a computer. Seems like yesterday, though. These days the teachers I know are savvy enough to use YouTube and Google.
But you are right...
1. Teachers do a damn hard job unsupported for the most part by the politicals in charge. This leads (from what I've seen) to a somewhat pragmatic approach.
2. I could not do a teaching job. I just can't abide kids for long (but I've done film shows in the past and the old gig with the boots and beard)
3. The way I feel tonight doesn't incline me to great or scintillating wit or a charitable viewpoint.
4. It was a cheap shot anyway.
5. My apologies to you, teachers in general, and my friend the old wolf.

Are you of the teaching persuasion? If so what age range? if you don't take offence at my asking, that is....

[fearciuil.livejournal.com]

Yep, I'm a teacher; 5- through 11-year-olds.

[r-caton.livejournal.com]

That's about the range of the schools I've had experience of ... with infants (5 - 8, roughly) separated from Juniors (9 - 10).

You wouldn't expect a 10 year old with 'tude to believe in the old guy with a beard but they do.... or want to so much they tell themselves they do.

You have my admiration, ... sir? I relate better to things, that's why I became an engineer. Albeit repair work is less and less feasible these days.

[ccdesan.livejournal.com]

She's a "ma'am".

[Stealth edit:] Not a "madam"

[r-caton.livejournal.com]

Oh *photons*

Sorry, dear lady. There are not enough men teaching in the younger age range as I am told... this leaves kids (who don't necessarily have a man at home) without male role models.
But I for one won't be rushing to even attempt to bridge that gap.

[fearciuil.livejournal.com]

No worries. If I minded, I would have made sure you knew.

[ccdesan.livejournal.com]

I'll vouch for that...